It's exactly one week to the day before Christmas and my house is all torn up because I'm STILL painting. The color is cream (American Tradition, now called something else) over existing white. I prepped the surface correctly, but the darn stuff won't cover! It seems thick enough and I'm using a quality roller and brushes, but it keeps needing "more". One wall has now had 4 coats and it looks just "okay". Am I doing something wrong? I have used American Tradition paint before and no problem. I don't even have the Christmas tree up because its wall to wall drop cloths in there.

You know, I just don't get it myself. How many coats for me, has depended on the brand AND the finish. For example, almost all eggshells do fine with two coats. Most flats do fine with two coats. But Farrow & Ball Estate Emulsion, which is their flat, takes three coats. Three different colors and always the same thing. I don't mind so much because the finish is exquisite and the color gets richer with every coat. But I was surprised.

I've never used American Tradition so can't comment. I just wanted you to know it's strange with other brands too. However, four coats reeeeeeeally seems excessive to me.

Ivette

Is American Tredition is from Lowes? I used eggshell for my house last month. 2 coats covered all. Ofcourse, first I used one coat of primer. Primer makes a lot of difference.

Some colors just don't cover well no matter what brand you use. Of course we struggle with some cranberry type reds but also yellows tinted with yellow oxide are bad for coverage.

American Traditions is now Valdspar and I emailed them yesterday to ask what the heck gives. Their reply was, "Thanks for your information, have a nice holiday".

I didn't really think I needed to prime over white when the next color is cream, but I guess I should have. The next weird thing is, the color keeps changing! In morning light it's cream, afternoon it looks peachy and by artificial light it's pale orange! And even the four coats look splotchy. I have painted rooms for many years and never had this happen.

Scarlett,

Cream over white ought to be, pardon the pun, a whitewash. I agree it seems odd. Were the walls really clean to start? Nicotine stains will wreak havoc with light colours, for instance.

A light coloured colour like that WILL take on the hues of the environment as you've described at different times of day, which is why it's really important to view your samples under the lighting conditions it'll be under...

Just for the sake of solving your problem (and we're finishing our house the week before xmas too, the walls are painted (although I'd like to give some another coat, but not sure if I'll have time, or if my wife will kill me) and we're putting up trim madly....

Anyway, I want to ask you some dumb questions, and please don't be insulted, because I'm just trying to help you eliminate all possibilities.

Firstly, what preparation did you do? Did you sugar soap/TSP the walls beforehand? What type of paint are you putting on, and what was the original paint - is it possible there's grease or film or the base paint is not allowing proper adhesion? I have wondered if some of these miracle cleanable paints with teflon etc would present a problem for new paint adhesion.

I would suggest you try calling Valdspar and ask for a supervisor (no doubt it'll be a call centre) and them about the flip email reply you got, and ask if they can shed some light....re-read the instructions - is there some weird requirement?

When we bought our house earlier this year, the living room had one red wall. We decided we liked the idea, but the red wasn't quite the right red - we found a red we DID like, and we proceeded to paint it. Since an adjacent wall was a different colour and the plastering wasn't marvellous, it was very difficult to get a clean line, so my wife tried masking tape....unfortunately that lifted some paint so around the edges we had problems that meant there was a lighter colour there. Two or three touch-up coats on these spots later, we could still see the light colour underneath (this paint was Ralph Lauren by the way, I'm not impressed with the coverage or the durability of the eggshell finish and will let them know)

I had a bit of a brainstorm, and went over the patchy parts with the original different red from underneath (previous owners left us remnants) - lo and behold, it was very easy to cover up then, now we had a consistent underneath....but your original paint's probably quite uniform...

I painted my old office in part in a beautiful bright lime green (no really, with halogen lights on it, it looked like a million bucks) which was patchy patchy patchy after numerous coats....upon re-reading the can, it recommended using a special ceramic undercoat, which was actually gray - I was trying to go over white undercoat originally. The difference was huge.

It comes down to the paint you're using, I suspect - it has little opacity. I'm not sure what to do about it (another dumb question, you're mixing it really really really well?)- if you're prepared to take a step backwards, you could try undercoating with a good quality white base undercoat, tinted with the tints for the cream....most paint places'll do it for you if you ask, of course in a lot of cases, it'll look quite different from the final colour because undercoat's generally only a white base...

Now I think of it, the banister I just painted was white, is now "espresso" - a dark chocolate brown - it was difficult to cover, too, but you'd think a dark colour would cover well - but, over white, I've had this problem before....

Hope this is of some help, let us know how you go.

No suggestions... BIL took 4 coats of a lighter green (in Rona brand which I have used no problem) to cover 'okay' in one room in their house. They even primed. Any other room they have done with the same brand/sheen and not had an issue.

I wonder if it could be something on the walls preventing it from absorbing?

Thanks for your responses, I really appreciate your help and advice. I washed the walls thoroughly with TSP, then rinsed, no nicotine in the house and the old paint was white flat latex, painted before I got the house, so I don't know what brand. No unusual surface. Stirred properly, tried different rollers, a paint pad and brushes, no noticeable difference. The cream Valspar paint is not thin. (I had heard that Ralph Lauren takes a lot of coats.) I just don't know... the Paint Gods are fooling around with me. As I'm writing this, it's Dec. 22nd, I'm at work and my husband is home, using an electric roller on the very last coat we are willing to give it. Any more and the room will start to get smaller!

I guess we will just clean up and put this whole mess on the back burner until after the holidays. I just hate to have an amateur-looking job up there when I know how to paint and usually have very good results. Hurts my "Paint Pride."

I know what you mean, Scarlett - I would personally rather leave it unfinished than rush things, or have to go to a lot of trouble going back to them (I was just looking at what a bad job previous owners did on the laminate floor and thinking how much work it'll be to remove and replace the skirting I've been putting down, should I replace it)

I had to be the bad guy and tell my wonderful wife I didn't think her nail-hole filling was up to scratch, I went to a lot of trouble to pre-paint - with an airless sprayer, they look magnificent - our trim which is quite wide and totally plain, so every blemish is going to stick out.

I think from the sounds of it, you've covered all the bases- and I suspect you're right about the ralph lauren paint - I guess you just have to keep on keeping on...but I think after the holidays, you should attempt to contact the company in writing, outlining the issues, and mention the prepping etc you did.

One last thought - what sort of roller technique do you use? Personally I've always been heavy on the paint, I've never gotten the coverage they say on the can, but my former business partner (painting the green I mentioned) didn't know there was more paint or how much to use, so made one whole can go about twice as far as it should have - he pushed pretty hard on that roller (and it didn't look great, that first coat)

Did you prime? Better yet, did you use a tinted primer?

SG

It doesn't matter what the color is, but a tinted primer is what will make your life easier. I've had a lot of experience with the Lowe's paint, and while it seems thick and rich enough to cover, when it's painted on a non-primed wall, it just doesn't cover.

I've regretted it every time I've thought that I wouldn't need a primer first. Do yourself a big favor, and try getting a quart or gallon of tinted primer, and use that as the base. It will be amazing the difference.

OR...I've found in my experience, that the Benjamin Moore paint seems to go on smoother without primer, no matter what the color.

I have read here and on other sites about the higher brand paints, I would like to add if I may, I have always used walmart brand paint, and have never, in 15 years had a problem with coverage, durability, yellowing etc. but then again my opinion has been I paint and change my mind too often to spend a fortune on paint. Really tho, dd painted her bathroom in a deep red, took 4 coats and still a very uneven coverage, I used foxx red from walmart, one coat and I was done, two over cabinets (not real wood). Just some food for thought for what it's worth.

sounds to me like you may be washing you rollers after each coat back into the paint bucket (just kidding) .... no paint needs 4 coats! Maybe its the color? too white? go bold pick a deeper color !!!

Hi Scarlett, (I hope post this isn't moot by now?!)

I'd like to clear up some misconceptions here if I may...

1) Your cream is in a white tinting-base. White bases have too much Ti02 to be that translucent. 2 coats are fine.
>> UNLESS they made a mistake and tinted a deep base that has little hiding-power. Check again on your can's formula label vs. the base name/# on the front label.

>> UNLESS UNLESS...A real LOW-grade line was used...also maybe by accident??

2) Your statement "it was white flat latex" is probably the whole key here.
>>> IF it was a low grade "builders-flat", i.e. porous and CHEAP, half your problem is right there!
>>> Even if it's clean, it's like painting a sponge...especially if they used little or no primer!!
>>> Sooo, if YOU didn't prime, it's like pouring paint down a rat-hole.

3) Mwkbear & Spiritual have good points. However, your Cream is too white to really need a tinted primer. White primer would've helped a TON here though!

4) Montana...your dd's RL red would've been fine if your retailer would've informed you to use a gray primer + 2 coats (5-hr. dry between coats though!!). On a strongly-lit wall, a 3rd coat does it. Use top-notch rollers!

Thanks,
Faron

That's a very good point Faron. I should have mentioned that when I felt the F&B flat needed three coats that was with one of those obnoxious (to me anyway!) incredibly bright contractor/painter lights that are MEANT to showcase every stinking flaw.

But, even with that, I found that in regular light, the third coat resulted in a truly noticably richer color, and I wonder if each coat doesn't just play on the last one, creating depth. Just like glazes would, if I had the patience to do ninety coats of glaze (okay ten) which I do NOT.

It does sound to me like lack of primer could be a major culprit here.

Good luck,
Ivette

Scarlett,

I ran into the same problem. What I was told was my walls were porous and b/c the walls had not been painted in so long it was sucking up all the new paint. We ended up using Killz (I think that is the name) it used on wood to, came back and painted and everything was fine after that point.

Scarlett & Co.,

Yeahhhhh, it just goes to show how important priming is! So many people "poo-poo" the priming, thinking it's just a waste of $$. Usually...when someone has to redo something, they find out how much they could have SAVED by priming!

Pirula...I'm kinda curious about that F&B paint! I don't think it's anywhere near the F-M area, but I'm gonna do some "googlin'" research.

Because we just got into C2, I guess I haven't paid too much attention to the other ultra-premium brands! Naughty boy I am! ;-)

Tuk,
Faron

Yea but after the 1st or 2nd coat the primer should be immaterial. Its paint on paint on paint. She's not painting over old paint, but fresh paint. So really this shouldn't be happening on the 3rd or 4th coat regardless of primer.
I'd go back to Lowe's and ask for a new can of paint, preferably from a different lot number or batch. Start with a new roller.